I'm Michael, a Cat 1 out of Vegas. I had bought a set of stock Zipp 404 wheels that I thought would do just fine for crit racing and training. A buddy of mine had the same rims, but one of the pawls in his rear hub broke and the gear would not engage, cauzing it to slip during an important race, which took him out of the running due to his hub mechanical. Nothing against Zipp hubs, but When Rich, the owner of Pro Wheelbuilder.com, showed me the inside of a Zipp hub compared to a White Industry hub, I was shocked!. I immediately had Rich build me a wheel from scratch using the Zipp rim, White industry hub, flat black spokes, and replaced the old rim tape with nipple plugs. I did all of this for the around the same price as buying the stock wheels, and let me tell you the wheel is ten times better than it was coming out of the box from Zipp. It's like a Zipp wheels on steroids!. I use em to climb, crit, train....anything and everything. I love em!. Trust me, Rich will guide you through the whole process in building a wheel that is perfect for all of your needs. He did it for me. Thanks Rich! Michael .....AkA...."Chicky"